RELSat  

Вернуться   RELSat > Общие разделы > Настройка оборудования
Имя
Пароль
Регистрация Справка Пользователи Календарь Все разделы прочитаны

Ответ
 
Опции темы Опции просмотра
Старый 04.05.2010, 20:46   #1
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию Dreambox - Magicamd - SKY UK

Hi all,

I can't speak russian, but I am wondering if anyone can help me.

I am running a DM800 Clone and Magicamd 1.35.

I am getting bad video stuttering on the SKY UK HD package. I have tried all the servers and they all seem to be affected, some better than others!!

Is there a better way of getting a stable UK HD Picture?

If I have posted in the wrong section please accept my apologies.

Thank you in advance.
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 04.05.2010, 21:19   #2
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

welby, that could be numerous issues( bad сhinese tuner more than likely - can't tune 8PSK TRANSPONDERS properly or unstable Internet connection etc. )
although rule #1 :
- do some mgcamd logging (we'll take a look at it ) and see what can we do next
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 04.05.2010, 22:06   #3
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
welby, that could be numerous issues( bad сhinese tuner more than likely - can't tune 8PSK TRANSPONDERS properly or unstable Internet connection etc. )
although rule #1 :
- do some mgcamd logging (we'll take a look at it ) and see what can we do next


Thank you for the reply - It also used to happen on my Octagon receiver, so I dont suspect the tuner.

I have a good internet connection to the receiver.

How can I best log the Magicamd on the DM?
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 04.05.2010, 22:39   #4
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

https://forum.relsat.org/showpost.ph...58&postcount=2

1) U HAVE TO ADD(or modify if it is already there ) following line to mg_cfg

L: { 01 } 192.168.1.1 514

where 192.168.1.1 is IP of your PC ( just an example , your IP could be different )
2) download & install 3CSyslog.zip
http://support.3com.com/software/uti...ows_32_bit.htm
restart the box , run this software from your PC -- U'LL get the log
Цитата:
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 ECM to newcamd ***********.40:4007
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd ***********.40:4007 (811ms)
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 [mg0] 811 msec -- Mon Apr 12 23:32:38 2010
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x051b ======
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 prov: 000000
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 cw0:0 E8 25 FD 0A AD 53 C4 C4
Apr 12 23:32:29 192.168.1.97 cw1:0 ED 37 B7 DB 1D 52 50 BF
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 ECM to newcamd ***********.40:4007
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd ***********.40:4007 (239ms)
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 [mg0] 239 msec -- Mon Apr 12 23:32:44 2010
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x051b ======
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 prov: 000000
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 cw0:0 E8 25 FD 0A AD 53 C4 C4
Apr 12 23:32:36 192.168.1.97 cw1:0 D6 E4 17 D1 6B 91 A4 A0
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 ECM to newcamd ***********.40:4007
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd ***********.40:4007 (231ms)
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 [mg0] 231 msec -- Mon Apr 12 23:32:53 2010
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x051b ======
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 prov: 000000
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 cw0:0 46 2E D7 4B F8 F0 48 30
Apr 12 23:32:45 192.168.1.97 cw1:0 D6 E4 17 D1 6B 91 A4 A0

Последний раз редактировалось sasa1976, 04.05.2010 в 22:47.
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 00:52   #5
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

If you look further down the log there seems at times a long time to get a reply from the server:

May 04 21:55:39 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:55:39 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:55:39 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 14 AF B1 74 78 26 D0 6E
May 04 21:55:39 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 98 6A 5D 5F 96 BF AD 02
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (320ms)
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 320 msec -- Tue May 4 21:55:49 2010
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 F3 8D BE 3E BD 68 72 97
May 04 21:55:47 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 98 6A 5D 5F 96 BF AD 02
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (219ms)
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 219 msec -- Tue May 4 22:20:20 2010
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 D0 0B 3B 16 C7 AB 99 0B
May 04 22:20:19 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 C6 92 4E A6 63 6C F6 C5
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (253ms)
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 253 msec -- Tue May 4 22:20:28 2010
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 D0 0B 3B 16 C7 AB 99 0B
May 04 22:20:27 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 35 33 2B 93 A5 49 AD 9B
May 04 22:20:35 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (1408ms)
May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 1408 msec -- Tue May 4 22:20:37 2010
May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 6C 13 85 04 74 BE 17 49
May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 35 33 2B 93 A5 49 AD 9B
May 04 22:20:43 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 22:20:43 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (243ms)
May 04 22:20:43 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 243 msec -- Tue May 4 22:20:44 2010
May 04 22:20:44 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 22:20:44 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 22:20:44 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 6C 13 85 04 74 BE 17 49
May 04 22:20:44 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 E9 F8 77 58 90 8E 01 1F
May 04 22:20:51 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 22:20:52 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (224ms)
May 04 22:20:52 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 224 msec -- Tue May 4 22:20:52 2010

Последний раз редактировалось welby, 05.05.2010 в 01:15.
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 00:55   #6
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от welby
OK here is my log:


May 04 21:40:54 192.168.0.5 [mg] Net:1:7:0:5s Show ecm:1, emm:1 Up:1 Au:2 Dir:0 Osd:no:80:0 Cache:7 Log:1:192.168.0.2:514 Reread:0
May 04 21:40:54 192.168.0.5 [mg] Ecm cache time: 15
May 04 21:40:54 192.168.0.5 Box type: mips dreambox (dm7025, dm800)
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 /dev/dvb/adapter0/ca3 error 2: No such file or directory
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 Conax.Key error 2: No such file or directory
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 Keys readed
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 Conax.Key error 2: No such file or directory
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 [config] newcamd route = welby:85.***********:4007 server newcs
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 newcamd keep alive: 0, incoming port: 12000
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 [mgcam] emm thread started
May 04 21:40:55 192.168.0.5 [newcamd] Connecting to 85.***********:4007...
May 04 21:40:56 192.168.0.5 [newcamd] Login to 85.***********:4007 as welby accepted (57ms)
May 04 21:40:56 192.168.0.5 [newcamd] Card data from 85.***********:4007 (112ms):
May 04 21:40:56 192.168.0.5 Userid 125 caid 963 providers 1
May 04 21:40:56 192.168.0.5 Idents: 000000
May 04 21:40:56 192.168.0.5
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 got 142 cmd 9F
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] namespace 11A0000 t-id 7E8 on-id 2
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] descramble on 1, source 0
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] service EEB index 0 pmt pid 103 (1), pids: video 0x0201, audio 0x0281 0x0295 0x090A
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 CaPID: 0x0503 ProvID: 000000
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 CaPID: 0x0503 ProvID: 000000
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 CaPID: 0x0503 ProvID: 000000
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] network can't decode
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] pid 0x0503 failed to decode.
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] network can't decode
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] pid 0x0503 failed to decode.
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (354ms)
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 354 msec -- Sat Jan 1 00:02:04 2000
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:05 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
May 04 21:41:06 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 B2 D3 21 A6 3C 6C F3 9B
May 04 21:41:10 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:11 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (235ms)
May 04 21:41:11 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 235 msec -- Tue May 4 21:41:12 2010
May 04 21:41:11 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:11 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:11 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 42 88 06 D0 CA 02 0D D9
May 04 21:41:11 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 B2 D3 21 A6 3C 6C F3 9B
May 04 21:41:19 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:20 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (294ms)
May 04 21:41:20 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 294 msec -- Tue May 4 21:41:21 2010
May 04 21:41:20 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:20 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:20 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 42 88 06 D0 CA 02 0D D9
May 04 21:41:20 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 1D A2 D6 95 90 75 FD 02
May 04 21:41:27 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:28 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (231ms)
May 04 21:41:28 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 231 msec -- Tue May 4 21:41:29 2010
May 04 21:41:28 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:28 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:28 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 1D D9 69 5F 90 CA 97 F1
May 04 21:41:28 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 1D A2 D6 95 90 75 FD 02
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (222ms)
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 222 msec -- Tue May 4 21:41:37 2010
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 1D D9 69 5F 90 CA 97 F1
May 04 21:41:36 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 61 83 97 7B BB 97 C7 19
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (232ms)
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 232 msec -- Tue May 4 21:41:46 2010
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 C1 B4 E0 55 D1 B9 91 1B
May 04 21:41:44 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 61 83 97 7B BB 97 C7 19
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (305ms)
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 305 msec -- Tue May 4 21:41:53 2010
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 C1 B4 E0 55 D1 B9 91 1B
May 04 21:41:51 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 3B E2 DA F7 7C B4 DB 0B
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (226ms)
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 226 msec -- Tue May 4 21:42:01 2010
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 90 7B B2 BD 2A 29 39 8C
May 04 21:41:59 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 3B E2 DA F7 7C B4 DB 0B
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (317ms)
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 317 msec -- Tue May 4 21:42:09 2010
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 90 7B B2 BD 2A 29 39 8C
May 04 21:42:07 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 80 26 AA 50 24 88 B7 63
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (244ms)
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 244 msec -- Tue May 4 21:42:17 2010
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 91 A6 85 BC 39 B1 FC E6
May 04 21:42:15 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 80 26 AA 50 24 88 B7 63
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (387ms)
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 387 msec -- Tue May 4 21:42:25 2010
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 prov: 000000
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 cw0:0 91 A6 85 BC 39 B1 FC E6
May 04 21:42:23 192.168.0.5 cw1:0 87 91 74 8C 3D 45 A5 27
May 04 21:42:31 192.168.0.5 ECM to newcamd 85.***********:4007
May 04 21:42:32 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (801ms)
May 04 21:42:32 192.168.0.5 [mg0] 801 msec -- Tue May 4 21:42:34 2010
May 04 21:42:32 192.168.0.5 ===== NDS ECM on CaID 0x0963, pid 0x0503 ======

Последний раз редактировалось welby, 05.05.2010 в 00:57.
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 01:13   #7
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

well, it's simple like this : in order to get "stable UK HD Picture" u must receive
key from the server within ~550-600ms , anything higher than that will make picture breaking, stuttering etc .
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 01:16   #8
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
well, it's simple like this : in order to get "stable UK HD Picture" u must receive
key from the server within ~550-600ms , anything higher than that will make picture breaking, stuttering etc .


yes I am getting delays which is odd:

May 04 22:20:37 192.168.0.5 [mg0] <- CW from newcamd 85.***********:4007 (1408ms)
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 01:22   #9
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

2 options really :
- internet connection not stable as you've thought ( run cmd:
ping -t serverIP
FOR minute or so (any requests timed out there ?)

- card is overloaded (too much users ) and there is nothing u can do about it

Последний раз редактировалось sasa1976, 05.05.2010 в 01:26.
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 01:31   #10
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
2 options really :
- internet connection not stable as you've thought ( run cmd:
ping -t serverIP
FOR minute or so (any requests timed out there ?)

- card is overloaded (too much users ) and there is nothing u can do about it


Time to live is 56 milliseconds always

Seems like to many users on the card

Time to look for an alternative server.
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 01:44   #11
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Time to live is 56 milliseconds always

TTL=56 ?
That it is not what u have to look after
time=XX ms
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=56

Последний раз редактировалось sasa1976, 05.05.2010 в 01:53.
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 01:57   #12
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
TTL=56 ?
That it is not what u have to look after
time=XX ms
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=56


sorry it should have been:

Reply from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=56
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 02:01   #13
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

ARE u getting any messages with frequent request timed out errors ? 2-4 in a row ?
Цитата:
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=56
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=56
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=56
request timed out
request timed out
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=56
Replay from xx.xxx.xx.xx: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=56

Последний раз редактировалось sasa1976, 05.05.2010 в 02:10.
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 02:13   #14
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
ARE u getting any messages with frequent request timed out errors ? 2-4 in a row ?


None at all
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 02:19   #15
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

Цитата:
None at all
well, u know what to do then
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 02:29   #16
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
well, u know what to do then


any suggestions?
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 02:34   #17
sasa1976
абонент
 
Регистрация: 22.07.2006
Сообщения: 423
По умолчанию

chip in with your friends(no more than 5-7) , get official viewing card , do local share .Anything else- waste of time
sasa1976 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 05.05.2010, 02:57   #18
welby
Пользователь
 
Регистрация: 06.05.2009
Сообщения: 20
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от sasa1976
chip in with your friends(no more than 5-7) , get official viewing card , do local share .Anything else- waste of time


yes I think you are right
welby вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Ответ


Здесь присутствуют: 1 (пользователей - 0 , гостей - 1)
 
Опции темы
Опции просмотра

Ваши права в разделе
Вы не можете создавать темы
Вы не можете отвечать на сообщения
Вы не можете прикреплять файлы
Вы не можете редактировать сообщения

BB-коды Вкл.
Смайлы Вкл.
[IMG] код Вкл.
HTML код Выкл.
Быстрый переход


Часовой пояс GMT +1, время: 19:28.


Copyright ©2000-2006